At AO People Partners, we believe that developing capable people is key to business success. Join our Founders, Catherine Allen and Ed Offterdinger, on the Master Leadership 360 Podcast as they explore the power of conscious leadership and its role in driving meaningful change in business outcomes and societal contribution. 

Check it out by listening to the episode or reading the abridged transcript below.

Today, we have Ed Offterdinger and Catherine Allen, co-founders of AO People Partners, a conscious leadership and people development firm that helps create successful, world-benefiting businesses. Between them, they have over 50 years of experience working with elite businesses and nonprofit leaders. Ed helped launch Baker Tilly, now one of the top 10 consulting and CPA firms in the US, while Catherine writes and speaks regularly on altruistic leadership development. They co-authored the well-received book Conscious, Capable, and Ready to Contribute: How Employee Development Can Become the Highest Form of Social Contribution. They are also active supporters of Conscious Capitalism, Inc., a nonprofit organization that aims to improve capitalism through harmony, prosperity, and compassion.

Welcome, Catherine and Ed. How are you?

Catherine Allen: We’re great and so happy to be in this conversation with you, Lily. Thank you so much for having us!

Lily: I’m super excited! Are you ready to pour into our listeners?

Ed Offterdinger: We are super ready.

Lily: Great! So, tell us a bit about your path to leadership and what you’re doing now.

Ed: Well, I like to say I’m a recovering accountant—that’s usually where I start. I was in public accounting and advisory for a long time. My last job was as the managing partner of two firms and Baker Tilly, which is now the eighth-largest firm in the country. But all the while I was in leadership, I had a coach, and I knew that coaching was what I really wanted to do. So, I sought advice from a friend who was a coach, and that led to us forming AO People Partners in 2017. Today, I’m primarily a leadership coach, working mainly with C-suite executives. We do a lot at AO, which I know Catherine will elaborate on.

Lily: Beautiful. Catherine, go ahead.

Catherine: My career has been in organizational and leadership development, particularly on the people side of business. I’ve been a facilitator, workplace mediator, and trainer, focusing on the soft skill development that employees need in various capacities. For the last 17 years, I’ve been a leadership coach. I’ve worked inside consulting firms, from small boutique firms to large ones, leading their organization development and talent management practices. Over time, I’ve come to appreciate the need to support leaders in taking a more integrative approach to developing people. At AO People Partners, we work with senior leaders to help them lead more effectively, develop their people more consciously, and build strong growth cultures that sustain everyday learning and growth.

Lily: So how did you two meet, and how did AO People Partners start?

Ed: I’ll tell you my version first. We’ve known each other for a long time—our spouses have known each other since high school, and we’ve vacationed together. I always knew Catherine as a coach, and as I was doing my thing, I realized that her thoughts on people development were very similar to what we were doing at the firm. At Baker Tilly, we were a small, high-end accounting and consulting firm in Washington, D.C., competing against much larger firms. We realized that our competitive edge was not just being the best but committing to developing leaders. This commitment led to our success, and when I decided to move into people advisory full-time, it naturally led to a conversation with Catherine, and that’s how we started the firm.

Lily: I have to say, accounting typically isn’t seen as sexy, but that’s a great approach.

Ed: It worked, and that was key. We were able to really invest in it, and partners embraced it because it made sense—not just for business, but for broader reasons, which we’ll unpack today. So, when I was ready to move on from Baker Tilly, I talked to Catherine, and we aligned around the idea of developing leaders as a way to make a broader impact. That’s how AO People Partners was born.

Lily: Catherine, your take?

Catherine: My version tracks with Ed’s. I had reached a point in my career where I appreciated how life-changing development opportunities can be for leaders. When leaders develop themselves, they’re better not just at work but also at home, in their communities, and with their families. I realized that people development in the workplace is a form of societal contribution, similar to environmental stewardship or philanthropy. When Ed and I connected, we found that we shared this vision of using leadership development as a way to make a broader impact. That’s how AO People Partners came together.

Lily: I love that you’re so focused on people and the higher-level thinking that it’s not just about organizations—it’s about communities, families, and, dare I say, love. I recently received your book Conscious, Capable, and Ready to Contribute. Tell us about it and where we can get it.

Catherine: We wrote this book for senior leaders. It has two main goals:

• 1. Awaken Leaders: To show how essential developing people’s capabilities is to business success, especially as AI and automation shape the future of work. The roles that people will take on will require higher levels of cognitive, emotional, and social intelligence.
  
• 2. Introduce a New Purpose: To introduce the idea that people development can be an expanded purpose for why a business exists, contributing to society by developing more capable individuals.

We decided to tell the story as a fable. I was lucky to partner with a talented fiction writer, so I’ll let Ed take over from here.

Ed: Thanks, Catherine. The book is a story about a firm, but it’s really about a leader named Andrew who loses his way and, with the help of people in his life, discovers the core principles that we espouse. It was fun to write, and I’ve had people react to the characters in personal ways, which is the joy of writing fiction. The book also includes practical strategies in the back, similar to models like Patrick Lencioni’s. We wanted to give leaders actionable steps to create strong growth cultures in their organizations.

Catherine: The back of the book offers five practical strategies that leaders can use to create sustainable, effective growth cultures:

• 1. Leadership Role: Leaders must own, model, and drive the development agenda.
  
• 2. Align Strategy: Align the company’s business strategy with its development strategy, ensuring that people capabilities are explicitly connected to business success.
  
• 3. Guiding Principles: Establish principles that guide everyone’s understanding of development within the company.
  
• 4. Identify Capabilities: Simplify and focus on the core mind skills (e.g., executive function, focus, organizing) and people skills (e.g., emotional intelligence, empathy, communication) that are essential for success.
  
• 5. Leverage the Employee Lifecycle: Use the employee lifecycle to embed and sustain development practices, making continuous learning a natural part of the work environment.
  

Lily: If I’m listening to this and thinking, “I need this in my company,” what’s the next step?

Catherine: If you’re a senior executive, the first step is to consider what could be possible if learning and development became an everyday practice in your business. Start by having a conversation with your senior team about why this is important to the business, providing context and relevance so that everyone understands the value of investing in their development.

Ed: And visit our website, aopeoplepartners.com.

Lily: Obvious, practical first step!

Ed: Exactly. We typically start with the C-suite because we’re trying to change the company—and the world. So, it’s best to start at the top, have a conversation with one executive, and let it cascade down.

Lily: I love that you’re trying to change the world. Now, I did some digging and wanted to talk about your favorite quotes. Catherine, your quote is “Everything is perfect, and we get to figure out why.” Tell me more about that.

Catherine: I’ve learned to live by that. Everything that happens in our lives has some form of purpose, and we can create value from it—whether it’s a good thing or a challenge. I use this in my coaching practice, helping leaders see every situation as an opportunity to learn, grow, and create value.

Lily: I love that. Ed, your quote is “Misery is optional.” Tell me more.

Ed: I learned this during a challenging time in my life from a spiritual advisor who said, “Pain is inevitable, but misery is optional.” It’s about orientation towards life—choosing how we react to situations. I often pair it with a quote from Ovid: “Water conquers rock,” emphasizing resilience and persistence. It’s about staying steady and not letting challenges define you.

Lily: I recently encountered a young person who said they don’t have or want a purpose. How would you respond to that?

Ed: Without knowing more, I’d say that wanting to just “be” sounds like a purpose in itself—to live in the present. It’s not fundamentally contradictory.

Catherine: Purpose can be daunting, especially for young people who might feel overwhelmed by the idea that it has to be something grand. Purpose tends to be outwardly focused, and it’s something we often grow into as we mature and our priorities shift. Sometimes, just being the best you can be in the moment is enough.

Lily: Thank you both for your wisdom. Now, given the constant change we experience, what are some practices that have helped you navigate shifting times?

Catherine: The most helpful practice for me is maintaining a learner’s mindset—seeing everything and everyone as a source of learning and growth. This mindset helps us adapt to change with openness and humility.

Ed: I agree. Curiosity, paired with critical thinking, keeps your mind open to new possibilities. I love Adam Grant’s idea of “thinking like a scientist”—being open to experimenting and learning from what doesn’t work, rather than doubling down on a fixed viewpoint.

Lily: Wisdom and humility are such important values in leadership. They’re deeply connected. Thank you both for sharing your insights today.